I have been very intrigued and a bit frustrated with Troika Ranch's blog on MySpace about a work of theirs currently in development called "Loop Diver."
I'm intrigued because I'm fascinated by works that explore the integration of dance, video and multimedia elements. In addition, Mark Coniglio is the creator of the Isadora software program, which is used for real-time manipulation of video during performances.
I'm frustrated because in their blog Mark and Dawn Stoppiello make references to their use of "loops," a center piece of their work, without giving me sufficient background to understand what they're referring to.
So I'm writing this post to encourage Mark, Dawn and others to provide answers and clarifications to my questions below.
But first, here are two videos from their current explorations. You can read their blog for background about these videos and visit the YouTube links to read the comments for the first video:
I was also doing a little experimentation. I created a side-by-side video panel, using You3b, of the two above videos so that you can watch these clips at the same time. I actually was forced to add a third video - so you can just focus on the two videos on the left of the panel. Here's link for comparison videos.
My Questions about "Loop Diver"
In the following paragraph, how does a computer lock performers into a "strict rational pattern"? How do performers than "shatter the loops' structure"?
The performers, visuals, and sounds in Loop Diver will be locked into relentless and strict rational patterns dictated by a computer. These fugue-like relationships – as complex as they are oppressive – will be interrupted, reshaped, and renewed by loop divers – performers, visuals or sounds that shatter the loops' structure.
What specifically is this module created with Isadora? What do these loops look like? What would be two or three examples of a "rich and complicated loop structure"?
What we do know is this: we are starting with the notion of a loop. The inspiration came out of a little module I created in my software Isadora that allowed my collaborator Dawn Stoppiello to create extremely rich and complicated loop structures: standard loops, loops that grow or shrink, shift forwards or backwards in time.
What does it mean to "impose the looping structure using Isadora"?
...she (and with her, all of us) have really agreed that the notion of making choreography in the traditional manner is simply not going to work for this piece. With the looping process starting to come into focus (record an improve, impose the looping structure using Isadora, dancers learn the looped material) it simply has become clear that "steps" are not what is important. Instead, the movements that are most compelling when looped are far more offhand than that.
What exactly is a "shifting loop"?
A couple of days ago, we were recording (with the intention of looping) an improv with all of the dancers where they chose some movement to perform. Lucia chose to simply remove her t-shirt. I keyed into this, and asked the dancers to form a straight line in front of the camera, to remove their t-shirt and drop it to the floor. We then took this video and made a very simple shifting loop -- one of the loop forms where a loop of fixed length moves through the videotaped material, slowly revealing the entire movement. Everyone in the group recognized that the result was quite powerful, requiring patience to experience, and recontextualizing this simple act into something much much more.
What does it mean for dancers to learn material from "looped videos"?
In any case, the key theme that Peter, Dawn and I have identified is one of violence. This primarily came out of watching the dancers attempt to learn the movement material from the looped videos. The imposition of the relentless and inorganic loops of the computer onto the bodies of the performers struck us as a kind of violence. We were forcing them to move in impossible ways... the mental fatigue that we witnessed in them as the attempted to perfect this material seemed almost like a kind of artistic torture.
Posted by Doug Fox on August 8, 2007 3:35 PM
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://greatdance.com/mtadmin/mt-tb.cgi/851
mark has posted a response to your questions already loopy clarifications. but i'm still wondering if there is a more 'accessible' approach (although i do like the latter part of his reply for it's depth). so here is an alternate take or your questions and marks replies.
» What specifically is this module created with isadora [that creates the loops]?
module is called Movie Player++ -- and is a bespoke module for troika's private artistic use. the module creates loops from filmed dance material buy segmenting the phrase into 0.25 second units and algorithmically restructuring it.
» What does it mean to 'impose the looping structure using isadora'?
normally (troika) movement material is structured with the dancers. this approach is like a human choreographer 'imposing' preset choreography on dancers as isadora (Movie Player++ --) does not consider the dancers but the looping structure. this results in movement sequences that are incredibly difficult / impossible to perform.
» What do these loops look like?
because the module is only restructuring the 'unit' order, what the loops 'look like' depends on the source material. a simple example of a shifting loop can be found here: t-shirt.
» What exactly is a 'shifting loop'?
» What would be two or three examples of a 'rich and complicated loop structure'?
t-shirt is an example of a shifting loop, for a description of the various loop structures and complex loops look here.
» What does it mean for dancers to learn material from 'looped videos'?
the dancer learns the looped video as a complete phrase. try it yourself with bklyn and find out what challenges are.
» how does a computer lock performers into a "strict rational pattern"?
[mark has a good response (in general) for this one]
» How do performers then "shatter the loops' structure?"
[marks response is perfect on this one]
Sorry if I seem blunt here but both of these video are, in my opinion, un-watchable nonsense.
For all the pseudo scientific rambling this is nothing more than jump cutting (an editing technique) and the endless pages of theory are irrelevant.
Shooting the same sequence in different locations and latching it together is a neat trick, we did it three year ago in Vienna, in 24 hours, shoot and edit. No 4,000 word essay required.
At this point, I'm coming to Troika Ranch's project with a desire to understand the basic building blocks including the approach to choreography, the use of Isadora to edit/manipulate video and how the looped video sequences are then learned by the dancers.
In this context, I've found the write-ups--especially Mark's answers to my questions and Matt's follow-up--very helpful. And I wouldn't characterize it as "pseudo scientific rambling."
There's another issue, which were indirectly getting at, that deals with the topic of how do you address the needs of different audiences when discussing dance video projects. And which audiences do you actually want to speak to?
Doug,
I understand your desire to understand the process of what is happening in the work I think it is helpful to understanding the work and helpful in generating further ideas. However, the product is not very interesting because it does not say anything. It can be powerful in the right context but the video of the t-shirts lost my interest after a minute and the video of the woman at the subway made me say "it's just editing" and I would have rather seen her just move or have a context other than look at what my software can do. I think Neil is a bit harsh but I think he is correct.
Matt has post "feedback loop" in his blog that continues this conversation.
One of Matt's points is the importance of explaining the context in which art is created. In other words, which earlier artists and what prior developments set the ground for new work to be created, and how does one's own explorations differ or not differ from what's come before.
This point resonates with me for two reasons:
1) I think it's very important to acknowledge where ideas come from, to the extent possible. For example, I link like crazy because I think it's critical for readers to know the origin of an idea or proposal. And,
2) I get very frustrated when I come across websites and blogs - in dance and other fields - where claims of originality are made that are simply not valid.
Since 2005, Doug Fox's blog has covered the intersection of dance and the Internet. A primary focus is to help dancers and dance companies use the Internet and their dance videos for marketing, educational, creative and revenue-generation purposes.
Email Doug Fox with inquiries, questions and feedback about Great Dance.
mark has posted a response to your questions already loopy clarifications. but i'm still wondering if there is a more 'accessible' approach (although i do like the latter part of his reply for it's depth). so here is an alternate take or your questions and marks replies.
» What specifically is this module created with isadora [that creates the loops]?
module is called Movie Player++ -- and is a bespoke module for troika's private artistic use. the module creates loops from filmed dance material buy segmenting the phrase into 0.25 second units and algorithmically restructuring it.
» What does it mean to 'impose the looping structure using isadora'?
normally (troika) movement material is structured with the dancers. this approach is like a human choreographer 'imposing' preset choreography on dancers as isadora (Movie Player++ --) does not consider the dancers but the looping structure. this results in movement sequences that are incredibly difficult / impossible to perform.
» What do these loops look like?
because the module is only restructuring the 'unit' order, what the loops 'look like' depends on the source material. a simple example of a shifting loop can be found here: t-shirt.
» What exactly is a 'shifting loop'?
» What would be two or three examples of a 'rich and complicated loop structure'?
t-shirt is an example of a shifting loop, for a description of the various loop structures and complex loops look here.
» What does it mean for dancers to learn material from 'looped videos'?
the dancer learns the looped video as a complete phrase. try it yourself with bklyn and find out what challenges are.
» how does a computer lock performers into a "strict rational pattern"?
[mark has a good response (in general) for this one]
» How do performers then "shatter the loops' structure?"
[marks response is perfect on this one]